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686 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES
side the Punjab, and are drawn from the higher caste-Hindus. In Madras, where education has been more widespread, the situation is different. It would be very hard to generalise.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The point I wish to put to you is this : You would not say, I am sure, that if the intellectual classes are drawn from the different strata of Indian society, that there would be the same dichotomy between them and the masses as would be the case if the intellectual classes were drawn from one single stratum ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : I entirely agree with you, there would not be.
- Dr. B. R Ambedkar : Therefore I think it would logically follow that such an intellectual class could be trusted to take care of the masses from which they themselves are drawn ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : I think so ; they would be more likely to do so.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I want to ask you another question : Is it not a fact that the existing Government rather fights shy of a legislative programme of social reform ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : Yes, I think on the whole there is a hesitation to do anything which could be construed or misconstrued interference with religious usages.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Do you not agree that a large part of the inefficiency of the Indian people is really due to these social evils ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : I think it has been largely due to that.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : And, therefore a Government which fights shy of a programme of legislative reform in order to remove the causes of social inefficiency of the Indian people is a weak Government ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : I would not say the Government fights shy. The Government hesitates until it feels it has a certain support of a mass of public opinion on its side. I think on that ground it supported the Survey Act.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, but in the main its legislative programme has been very poor ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : Yes, because legislation can never be too much in advance of public opinion in a country like India. When the Government first introduced legislation of that kind Mr. Tilak was at once up in arms, and said the Government was interfering with religion. The result was an agitation in the Deccan and massacres.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Government was frightened by a single individual like Mr. Tilak ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : It was not Mr. Tilak alone ; he had marvellous powers of carrying people with him.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Indians would not be afraid of Mr. Tilak ?
Sir Michael O’dwyer : I think they would. I think very few people would cross swords with Mr. Tilak. Lord Sydenham was one.
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : You said you would not transfer Law and Order for the moment. You would transfer all the other before you would