z:\ ambedkar\vol-02\vol2-09.indd MK SJ+DK 21-9-2013 737
EVIDENCE : WING COMMANDER A. W. H. JAMES AND ANOTHER 737
Dr. J. H. Hutton: I admitted that in some circumstances where they are very scattered living among other populations, it would be otherwise.
D226. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: But in the main, that is the hypothesis upon which you are proceeding ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: Yes, in the main.
D227. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: What is the ideal that you have before you for these people ? I will crystallise my question so that you may answer it better.
Dr. J. H. Hutton: The minimum of interference by anybody.
D228. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Let me put it in the way I visualise the question. Is it your ideal that these primitive people should continue to remain primitive people without having anything to do with the affairs of the rest of India, or do you propose that the destinies of these people should be so regulated that in course of time they should cease to be an isolated part of humanity and take part in the public affairs of their country as the rest of Indians are doing now ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: I think that the second is my ideal.
D229. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: That they should not continue permanently as primitive people ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: The question would have to be that, if possible, ultimately they should take a part in the life of their country.
D230. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: That is what I say ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: But it is possible that in some cases you might never be able to achieve that ideal.
D231. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Let us, first of all, ascertain what the ideals are ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: Yes.
D232. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I am not introducing the religious question at all, whether they should be this or that ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: No.
D233. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: What you do point out is this : You do say, and I think it is your ideal, that they should become part and parcel of the civil society ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: Yes.
D234. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: And outgrow their tribal condition ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: Yes, I think that is necessary.
D235. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Let me therefore proceed further. If that is the view, is it not desirable that there should be a common cycle of participation both for the civilised people of India and for these primitive people ?
Dr. J. H. Hutton: Not yet.
D236. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : So that there may be a percolation of the ideas which are agitating the minds of the civilised part of Indian society into this primitive class of people ?